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scottlynch78:

Be warned that this post contains spoilers for the 3rd and 4th seasons of GAME OF THRONES and for that cute little series of books ol’ whatshisname wrote.

Thanks to the archaic rules of cable television (they probably seemed like a great idea back in 1992) it turns out I can’t actually sign up for HBO GO and get my weekly fix just yet. I have, however, indulged myself in a good long look at the pivotal Purple Wedding scene via Youtube, because I am a nerd. It’s the bit where King Joffrey “Baratheon” finally sashays off this mortal coil, and you can’t say he hasn’t worked day and night to deserve the trip.

Now, I had some qualms about the Red Wedding, the third-season climax in which Lord Walder Frey’s castle truly earned its one-star Yelp rating as a wedding reception hall. It pulled no punches, but the extreme brutality of it made even me cringe, and the extended duration of the suffering reached the edges of self-parody, especially with Robb’s soft little gasp as he finally finally FINALLY died and the sheer get-the-fuck-on-with-it quality of Catelyn Stark’s murder of Lady Frey before she took a number and stood in line to get her own throat slit.

I’m more fond of the way the Purple Wedding was handled.

The first striking thing about the Purple Wedding is the strained silence raised by the Joffrey/Tyrion conflict. This is a court that has been absolutely wrung out by the whims and viciousness of Joffrey, to the point that nobody knows when to even pretend to laugh anymore. Having everyone stonily not play along is a very canny directing decision, because it lets the court itself have an emotional arc. Jesus, these people are tired and nervous at this point in the story. After death, war, siege, more death, horrible rumors, and the reign of a brutal young poltroon, these people can’t even be bothered to keep their social masks in place. This atmosphere, more than any pile of blood-spurting corpses, serves notice that life for these folks has become a constant disaster.

The second thing is the immensely clever chain of suspicion the episode constructs around possible sources for the poison, using techniques of simple emphasis that any writer should gleefully pilfer for their own use. Note how each of the following things is shown, and given equal narrative weight, without any added music to hint at ominous preparations:

1. Joffrey knocks his cup around like a spoiled child so that it spends a few moments under a table;
2. Sansa is the one who picks the cup up before handing it to Tyrion;
3. Tyrion pours the wine from the decanter in front of Cersei;
4. Joffrey drinks, then passes the goblet to Margaery;
5. Margaery sets it down near Olenna, where it remains for several moments;
6. The king is the first to eat the pie, and is served by Margaery;
7. When Joffrey’s distress becomes apparent, Olenna is the first to loudly shout for help;
8. Ser Dontos immediately approaches Sansa and warns her to leave the wedding.

Even without the need to speculate on all the webs of conspiracy woven around this court, the episode visually establishes a complete array of direct suspects (Tyrion, Sansa, Margaery, Olenna, Dontos) and also drops a hint that the poison might have been aimed at someone else (Cersei).

Readers of the books will eventually discover where the poison came from, but I’m ignoring them for a moment to admire the artfulness of the TV version of this scene. There’s nothing wrong with the Purple Wedding in the original text; it’s still very effective, but it’s also written from Tyrion’s point of view, so barring the possibility of extreme POV dishonesty, the reader can rule him out as a deliberate poisoner right away. The TV show has the luxury of keeping him in the mix as a genuine suspect, and does so with style.

racefortheironthrone:

Quick Analysis of New World of Ice and Fire Excerpt!

GRRM is being very giving lately, so we’ve got a brand-new excerpt below the cut. So, spoilery analysis below the cut, and here’s hoping the World of Ice and Fire book didn’t totally invalidate my Hollow Crowns essay on Aegon.

Aegon_on_Black_Dread_J.Gonzalez

(more…)

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queenacrossthenarrowsea:

I think people are getting confused about intent when they talk about the Targaryens.

The maddest of the Targaryens weren’t only crazy, they weren’t only poor rulers, they actually enjoyed causing pain to others. Aerys abused Rhaella sexually - not because she was a threat or an enemy, but because he wanted to hurt her. Viserys abused Dany even though she was the only family he had, even though he loved her, because that was the only way he could vent his frustration. 

Can we compare the results of their actions to others? Certainly. Aerys was a bad king, for example, and so was Robert Baratheon. But Robert was a bad king because he was selfish, lazy, quick to anger, and just simply not the right person for the job. He wasn’t ever cruel in the way that Aerys was. Both kings hurt Westeros, yes, but only one did so out of sheer cruelty. 

Aerys’ actions were completely, unnecessarily violent. For example, look at the way he murdered Rickard and Brandon Stark: Brandon choked himself to death trying to rescue his father who was being cooked alive in his armor. Robert would have beheaded his enemies, he wouldn’t have tortured them. There’s a difference in motivation behind those two things that I think some of fandom is missing.

That’s especially clear when it comes to comparing Dany and Viserys. Is Dany inept sometimes? Yes. Naive? Certainly. Should everyone like her and want her to rule Westeros? No way. But she does genuinely care for her people and wants what’s best for them. Viserys cares for no one as much as he cares about winning the Iron Throne - even Daenerys. One of his first lines in both the show and the book is him stating that he would let tens of thousands of men and their horses rape his sister in order to get his crown. Dany can’t even bring herself to pass by Yunkai and Meereen without rescuing the slaves within their walls, even though it delays her journey to Westeros. See the difference?

In the end, if two Targaryens cause the deaths of thousands, whether their intents were similar or not doesn’t make a difference, at least not to the people of Westeros/Essos. Innocents are still dead, end of story.

But when we’re out-of-universe, talking about who likes/dislikes which character and why, and why these characters do the things they do, I think it’s useful to understand that deliberate cruelty and naivete (or arrogance, or self-obsession, or whatever else people criticize Daenerys for) are flaws that are on a completely different scale.

lionsandlionesses:

[Beware: Spoilers of ASOS]

It’s a little bit too soon to know how the show is going to show us who is the responsible for Joffrey’s death but after having a look at some tags I’ve sen that a lot of people who have read the books are forgetting something incredibly important and I fear that the writters may forget it too: Olenna wasn’t alone.

Certainly she had plenty of reasons to want Joffrey dead. She has proved to be a great player of the game and she has done it wonderfully. Margaery’s safety was paramount for her so she did everything she could to know what kind of person Joffrey was. Once she knew the ugly truth she didn’t step back. She wasn’t worried about her granddaughter’s safety anymore bacause once Margaery was queen, Joffrey was no longer needed. Olenna is the one who straightens the necklace in the show and the hair net in the books.

She is part of that scheme and nobody suspects her but we keep on forgetting the ultimate player. The one who whatever he does, makes certain his hands are clean. Petyr leads Sansa leaving the note telling her to go to the godswood. Ser Dontos was Petyr’s employee. He helps Olenna realize Joffrey is dangerous. He didn’t attend the wedding yet he knew who had straightened out Sansa’s hairnet. Littlefinger ends up being like the wind: you can’t see him but you can feel him. He is far from King’s Landing so he is the last person in which one would think, even Sansa says that. He has no apparent reason to want Joffrey dead.

"My Lord, I… I do not understand… Joffrey gave you Harrenhal, made you Lord Paramount of the Trident… why…"

"Why should I widh him dead?" Littlefinger shrugged "I had no motive. Besides, I am a thousand leages away in the Vale. Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Somethimes, the way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose or even seem to work against you"

We will never know how much did Olena know about the plan. Maybe she only wanted to protect Margaery and make her queen and she didn’t care about Sansa’s safety. Maybe she didn’t have anything against Sansa but she was willing to let her pay the consequences in case somebody pointed at the poor girl. Maybe she was not worried at all because she already knew that Petyr would come “to the rescue”. We will never know, but what we know is that this is not the first time Littlefinges does something like this and that, added to the fact that Olena Tyrell is far from being stupid give us a perfectly intricate scheme.

Littlefinger only needed someone to pin the murder on: Tyrion was the perfect option. He knows what people want, who they are and how to move them. That is why he knew that Tyrion would be perfect. Joffrey openly despised him and didn’t hesitate to humilliate his uncle in public and Petyr just took advantage of that:

"You can lead a king to water, but with Joff one had to splash it about before he realized he could drink it. When I told him about my little surprise, His Grace said, ‘Why would I want some ugly dwarfs at my feast? I hate dwarfs’. I had to take him by the shoulder and whisper, ‘Not as much as your uncle will’ "

And he already knew that Cersei wasn’t Tyrion biggest fan because c’mon, who doesn’t

"She thinks herself sly, but in truth she is utterly predictable"

So it was painfuly evident that everybody would blame Tyrion for Joffrey’s death. Cersei would immediately point at him and that would give him enough time to take Sansa out of there.

Olenna Tyrell wins: her granddaughter is safe and about to marry a kinder king and even easier to manipulate.

Petyr Baelish wins: he keeps going with the game and now Sansa is within his reach.

Neat, isn’t it?

10/10* would recommend

*Except for Sansa Stark and House Lannister ofc

him-e:

desidangerous:

trebuchettully:

thomasadennis:

trebuchettully:

okay so I keep seeing people claiming that Cersei’s jealousy of Brienne is OOC and I am just baffled to be honest.

Cersei is so jealous of Brienne. There is not a fibre of Cersei’s being that is not jealous of Brienne.

and that has nothing to do with Jaime.

Jealousy…

I mostly agree with this, but I do have a couple of quibbles. 

One, that it has nothing to do with Jaime… well, yeah, it sort of does, because Cersei no longer has Jaime’s heart, to the extent that she used to, unconditionally, because Jaime is no longer exactly the same person that he was when they last saw each other. And who was around for most of that evolution? Brienne. 

The other is that it is a power play, but it’s the sort of power play that is done by someone whose grip on power is slipping, as Cersei’s is due both to her father and her son’s bride. Cersei’s pettiness is characteristic, as is Margaery’s and the Queen of Thorns’ courtesies toward Brienne, since, unlike Cersei, they don’t make the common mistake of underestimating the Maid. 

I actually totally agree, it is kind of to do with Jaime, but I was just so sick of everyone claiming it was all about some kind of High-School-Drama love triangle that I overemphasised the lack of Jaime-related motivation. 

I’m not entirely sure how your second point is disagreeing with me? Because that, when I was writing the post, is what I was thinking. Her petty little digs at Brienne are mostly to do with desperately trying to prove to herself that she still has some power (as is the scene with Pycelle). She’s lashing out at anyone she perceives as weak because this wedding is essentially stripping her of the power she craves. 

I’d like to point out that what spurred Cersei to speak to Brienne was Brienne’s response to her ‘did you just bow?’ with a polite reply suggesting that Brienne has never been demanded to live the life of a lady. The fact that Cersei opens with ‘You are Selwyn Tarth’s daughter and that makes you a lady, whether you like it or not’ is telling of which nerve Brienne’s comment had plucked.  Jaime didn’t enter the equation until later. 

In fact, I don’t think Cersei’s intention to confront Brienne about Jaime in the first place The gratitude she expresses in her bringing back to safety initially began as a platitude and it wasn’t until Brienne mentioned how Jaime had ‘saved her more than once’ that layered on an unexpected wave of anger. Cersei is not threatened by Brienne’s affections for Jaime or Jaime affections for Brienne; what she’s angered by is the fact that Jaime ‘took too long’ to get back to her in King’s Landing and she supposes its because he was wasting time saving Brienne.

Jaime had been Cersei’s ‘shining knight’ all her life and now he was playing shining knight for other people instead of being there for her when she needed him. 

So yes, there is some jealous involved but I very much doubt it’s because Cersei sees Brienne as a threat to her relationship with Jaime or because she genuinely believes that Jaime would pursue Brienne. As trebuchettully mentioned,  Cersei was on a warpath at the wedding. She was seeing her loss of power everywhere. Loss of power as queen regent, loss of power over her son, loss of power as woman in having to conform to social norms, and then a loss of power over Jaime. 

tl;dr: yes, the confrontation was a power play and yes there was jealousy involved, but it was not romantic or sexual jealousy.  totes agree

I agree with this and especially on the fact that what triggered Cersei was exactly Brienne’s casual comment about never being able to master the curtsy, which was totally good natured on Brienne’s part, but hit a nerve on Cersei, because it came off as “haha, I am above such things, your grace” and oh boy, Cersei wishes no one ever forced on her the curtsy and all that feminine drivel too, but she had to learn, to turn into the perfect lady even though she had the heart of a warrior. So she sees Brienne and she’s like “and who the hell do you think you are? If I had to bend, you will too!” In essence, everything Brienne is pisses Cersei off big time because she sees Brienne as a big spoiled brat with a weak father who for some reason granted her all the nice things Cersei never had.

Anonymous asked:
If the Brotherhood knows who Gendry is do you think they have any special plans for him such as getting him legitimized and trying to make him king? Or they might just be trying to protect him.

Just because Thoros is informed doesn’t mean the rest of the BWB is. He might be keeping that to himself. 

And if they all do, why would they care? They suspect Bella is Robert’s bastard, everyone knows about Mya Stone and Edric Storm, why would Gendry be all that special. I’m sure they want to protect him as A) he’s one of them, B) it’s the “lions” they hate who are after him, and C) they’re pro-Robert, but like the importance of bastards is way overstated by the fandom. 

Part of it is the show, they didn’t make it clear why Cersei was so afraid of Robert’s bastards- and by giving the order of their execution to Joffrey, it made it appear as though he viewed them as a threat to the throne or something.

But bastard claims are hardly worth fretting over really because rarely do bastards ever get legitimized and for other reasons.

The books make this clear, too:

(on Stannis wanting Edric Storm) Catelyn read the letter again after the maester was gone. “Lord Meadows says nothing of

Robert’s bastard,” she confided to Brienne. “I suppose he yielded the boy with the rest, though I confess, I do not understand why Stannis wanted him so badly.”

“Perhaps he fears the boy’s claim.”
“A bastard’s claim? No, it’s something else… what does this child look like?” 
Catelyn, ACoK

Bastards aren’t as important as the fandom seems to think politically. The reason why KL’s after Gendry (and wants him dead) is because Cersei’s children are illegitimate. He can’t get the throne, but he can prove (by his appearance) that they shouldn’t be on there. Stannis wants them (Robert’s bastards) as proof of his right to rule over Joffrey/Tommen. Melisandre wants Edric because his blood has power- but no political power.

While I don’t think it’s impossible for Gendry to be legitimized at some point- especially since the fate of the Baratheon line looks grim and so much emphasis has been placed on his parentage with regards to him- it’s not a certain thing by any means.

And besides, Gendry’s pretty much the least desirable bastard to legitimize. He’s uneducated, spent most of his life as an orphan in Flea Bottom and the rest as an outlaw, prisoner or the like. He can’t read or write, he speaks like a commoner, he has no knowledge of ruling/lordship/etiquette/anything that would be at all useful.

Bastards like Jon, who was raised as a highborn in all but name, are desirable because it’s the name they lack- the lordship and house- not the actual abilities to be a lord. Jon was trained in arms, he’s very well educated, taught by Ned Stark and treated to a lord’s life in many respects. It would be easy for him to become a lord by legitimization. No one would balk at that compared to someone like Gendry, or Bella. To say nothing of how Gendry was never recognized in life by Robert.

Bastards like Ramsay SnowBolton, Aurane Waters, even the Sand Snakes all have backgrounds that make them a higher quality of bastard than Gendry in terms of legitimization. 

If you want a Baratheon bastard as king (which no one does, I’ll get to that though,) then why not hunt down Edric Storm- the awknowledged bastard who was raised as a noble and educated and is noble on both sides.

Gendry is a baseborn, Edric is not. (Neither is Jon with R+L=J for the record, but people like Sansa assume he is.)

Not all bastards are created equal though. Gendry would be no one’s choice for a lord really, much less a king. I could see him getting legitimized because the Baratheon line is dying (and maybe Edric’s still MIA) and he has a highborn friend/lover/who knows from a very prominent family (Arya) but it’s not at all a certain thing.

And even if I would bet on GRRM going there (which I’m not,) the BWB really have no reason to even jump there. Who’s going to back an unacknowledged blacksmith, baseborn bastard of a dead king for the Iron Throne? While aforementioned dead king’s legitimate (supposedly) and noble son sits on it?

princekraken:

Robb is mentioned in almost every Theon chapter in ADWD - sometimes even before Theon achieves remembering who he was. No matter how you interpret their relationship, Robb is part of Theon’s identity. At Robb’s side, it seemed easy to take on the role of the confidante, it wasn’t perfect and ideal but it gave Theon a purpose. He was proud of fighting at Robb’s side. More importantly, he was proud to be his friend. Which is why he can’t help but mention it to Balon. Robb always was his friend before being Eddard’s son. He avoids thinking of Robb in his ACOK chapters - he never resents him. He dreams of him, he is terrified of Robb dying, hating him. It’s easy to use Robb’s death as a weapon against Theon because it’s one of his worst nightmares, something he can’t deal with without ending up hating that Theon, who betrayed Robb, who couldn’t make his family proud, who couldn’t leave his mark. But Theon will remember Robb and their common memories, and he will remember his name afterwards. HE IS GOING TO BETRAY YOU RAMSAY.

(via eclectictsunami)

whoistorule:

One of the greatest parallels in The Lion and the Rose is that between what Sansa and Theon are made to endure.  Of course Theon’s torment is more physical than Sansa’s for numerous reasons (first and foremost being that Theon himself is guilty of great crimes and is tortured by a man even crueler than Joffrey and with more of the means to cruelty at his fingertips/fewer social mores to protect his victims) but there’s a clear line drawn between the two.

In Theon’s scenes, he’s tortured by Ramsay physically and psychologically and made to endure this torment and the news of sorrow and the loss of the one man he’s ever respected and loved without faltering.  But the thing about Theon’s tale is that it’s supposed to tell us that no matter how horrifying and horrible you have been, you never deserve what Ramsay has done to him, ever.  No one deserves to be dehumanized and tortured the way that Theon is.

And Sansa endures great tragedy and torture and constant threat to her mind and her person with a grace and elegance no one else could ever dream of.  But what’s more is she endures it and manages to maintain the quality that is most essential to her - her kindness.  Even after years of being psychologically destroyed and sold off to a monster who’s family murdered hers, of being forced to smile as the death of her mother and brother and father are bandied about as jokes, and profess her loyalty to the man who had them all done in, that she can still find it within herself to be kind is what makes her so spectacular.

Theon spent all of season 2 telling you why he deserved better from this life, but Sansa never did.  The truth is she doesn’t whine and she doesn’t tell you how hard her life was because it wasn’t.  She was a beloved fairytale princess until she wasn’t.  She thought she would marry a King until the day she started praying that she wouldn’t.  All she wants is to go home.

And at the end of the day, that’s what Theon wants as well.  They both want to go back to Winterfell.  They both want to return to the life that they always dreamed themselves beyond.  And that’s what makes their parallel stories so powerful.

donewithwoodenteeth:

AGoT:

“Stop it!” Arya screamed. She grabbed up her fallen stick. Sansa was afraid. “Arya, you stay out of this.”

“I won’t hurt him… much,” Prince Joffrey told Arya, never taking his eyes off the butcher’s boy.

Arya went for him. 

They rolled in the grass, the wolf snarling and ripping at him, the prince shrieking in pain. “Get it off,” he screamed. “Get it off!”

Arya’s voice cracked like a whip. “Nymeria!”

The direwolf let go of Joffrey and moved to Arya’s side. The prince lay in the grass, whimpering, cradling his mangled arm. His shirt was soaked in blood. Arya said, “She didn’t hurt you… much.” She picked up Lion’s Tooth where it had fallen, and stood over him, holding the sword with both hands. 

ACoK/ASoS:

She had thought she had known what it meant to be afraid, but she learned better in that storehouse beside the Gods Eye. Eight days she had lingered there before the Mountain gave the command to march, and every day she had seen someone die…There was no place to hide, no tricks to play, no way to be safe…. 

The questions were always the same. Was there gold hidden in the village? Silver, gems? Was there more food? Where was Lord Beric Dondarrion? Which of the village folk had aided him? When he rode off, where did he go? How many men were with them? How many knights, how many bowmen, how many men-at-arms? How were they armed? How many were horsed? How many were wounded? What other enemy had they seen? How many? When? What banners did they fly? Where did they go? Was there gold hidden in the village? Silver, gems? Where was Lord Beric Dondarrion? How many men were with him? By the third day, Arya could have asked the questions herself. 

It was the easiest thing in the world for Arya to step up behind him and stab him.

“Is there gold hidden in the village?” she shouted as she drove the blade up through his back. “Is there silver? Gems?” She stabbed twice more. “Is there food? Where is Lord Beric?” She was on top of him by then, still stabbing. “Where did he go? How many men were with him? How many knights? How many bowmen? How many, how many, how many, how many, how many, how many? is there gold in the village?

ACoK/TWoW:

One of the spearmen drifted over to Lommy. “Something wrong with your leg, boy?”

“It got hurt.”
“Can you walk?” He sounded concerned.
“No,” said Lommy. “You got to carry me.”
“Think so?” The man lifted his spear casually and drove the point through the boy’s soft throat.

Lommy never even had time to yield again. He jerked once, and that was all. When the man pulled his spear loose, blood sprayed out in a dark fountain. “Carry him, he says,” he muttered, chuckling. 

"Can’t you walk?”

“Walk?” His fingers were slick with blood. “Are you blind, girl? I’m bleeding like a stuck pig. I can’t walk on this.”

“Well,” she said, “I don’t know how you’ll get there, then.”

“You’ll need to carry me.”

See? thought Mercy. You know your line, and so do I.

“Think so?” asked Arya, sweetly.

Raff the Sweetling looked up sharply as the long thin blade came sliding from her sleeve. She slipped it through his throat beneath the chin, twisted, and ripped it back out sideways with a single smooth slash. 

Throwing sadists’ words back in their faces as they are for once the ones not delighting in administering pain but rather dealt what they’re given since AGoT-

Arya Stark, ladies and gentlemen.

If you were required to venture a guess about "liberties at the bedding," what would you say?

“Prince Aerys… as a youth, he was taken with a certain lady of Casterly Rock, a cousin of Tywin Lannister. When she and Tywin wed, your father drank too much wine at the wedding feast and was heard to say that it was a great pity that the lord’s right to the first night had been abolished. A drunken jape, no more, but Tywin Lannister was not a man to forget such words, or the… the liberties your father took during the bedding.”

Hmm. I know you have that theory about Aerys burning Joanna, but that’s never been something that crossed my mind. Honestly, from when I first read Barristan speaking of the matter, I thought that Aerys was just… highly inappropriate. More inappropriate than beddings usually are — which after all involve the men at the wedding undressing the bride, and the women undressing the groom, all making lewd jokes while they do so, then pushing them both into bed naked.

For example, if we can take the Butterwell-Frey wedding in The Mystery Knight as a standard:

The next thing he knew, he was climbing a tower stair with the bride squirming in his arms. How he kept his feet was beyond him. The girl would not be still, and the men were all around them, making ribald japes about flouring her up and kneading her well whilst they pulled off her clothes. The [troupe of comic] dwarfs joined in as well. […] Dunk had no notion where Lord Butterwell’s bedchamber was to be found, but the other men pushed and prodded him until he got there, by which time the bride was red-faced, giggling, and nearly naked, save for the stocking on her left leg, which had somehow survived the climb. […] When Dunk finally plopped the bride onto her marriage bed, a dwarf leapt in beside her and seized one of her breasts for a bit of a fondle. The girl let out a squeal, the men roared with laughter, and Dunk seized the dwarf by his collar and hauled him kicking off m’lady.

Sure, the men undress the bride, and they’re not shy about it, but note nobody actually tries anything approaching assault except the dwarf (who since he’s a comic dwarf, everyone finds it hilarious and he gets away with it).

I think what Aerys did was similar — grope Joanna and otherwise handle her inappropriately during the bedding. Perhaps he even jumped into the marriage bed and made jokes-that-were-not-actually-jokes about how they should lock the door and keep Tywin out, continuing his theme about the “first night”. (And he got away with it, because he was the king, and drunk, and so on.) But obviously Aerys didn’t actually rape Joanna, not in near-public where all the wedding guests were watching, people who would have stopped him. Frankly, anyone who thinks “liberties at the bedding” equals “rape” is stupid, tbh.

I think it could also be compared to Sansa and Tyrion’s wedding — where Joffrey took the opportunity during the cloaking ceremony to grope Sansa, during the dancing told her that marriage was no protection from him and he could have her whenever he wanted, and announced the bedding because he explicitly wanted to see Sansa naked. But no matter how power-mad Joffrey was, he wasn’t going to rape her during the bedding ceremony itself with everyone watching and where someone (Tyrion, Tywin at least) would have definitely stopped him. (Though if Joffrey had had the opportunity afterwards, I’m sure he would have tried. But not during the bedding.)

Come to think of it, a comparison between Joffrey and Aerys is actually made textually, several times. Most notably in the post-RW council scene, by Tywin himself:

“Aerys also felt the need to remind men that he was king. And he was passing fond of ripping tongues out as well. […] And any man who must say ‘I am the king’ is no true king at all. Aerys never understood that, but you will.”

Though that’s getting a bit off the subject… but anyway. Considering we know how bedding ceremonies work, and with the repeated comparisons of Joffrey to Aerys, I think we have a good idea of what Aerys’s “liberties at the bedding” very probably involved. Awful, severely inappropriate behavior, groping and such, but things that could be “excused” because of his rank and obvious drunkenness. Though not forgotten, not ever. But especially since Tywin continued being Aerys’s Hand for at least another 16 years, certainly nothing like some people who can’t read might speculate.

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